Destiny's story is closest to their old Marathon Series, where there was no interaction and the only story evidence was random terminals. If the Grimore was in game, that would exactly describe Destiny.

[snip] That is, while moving the Grimoire in-game would be a huge improvement, it wouldn't solve core storytelling issues.

Not that I'd have any issues with a modern AAA game taking a pure Marathon approach. If it got good reviews we'd get some properly explosive Cody threads.

I agree that it wouldn't solve the core storytelling issues, but it certainly would improve player's emotional attachment to the game. Just think of some of those grimoire cards that fans have put to audio performances. I'm thinking specifically of the Thorn story. They wouldn't all have to be radio-play style performances, but some select few it would be amazing. How great would that be to have your ghost read/play/show-text to you for recently unlocked grimoire during your next loading screen/trip to the tower?

Destiny's story is closest to their old Marathon Series, where there was no interaction and the only story evidence was random terminals. If the Grimore was in game, that would exactly describe Destiny.

The form has similarities, but the function is different. Marathon's terminals drove a strong core narrative around the immediate happenings. Destiny's Grimoire is good lore; it enriches what is supposed to be there in the main game, but the content wasn't written to replace what's missing. That is, while moving the Grimoire in-game would be a huge improvement, it wouldn't solve core storytelling issues (I'm hoping that TTK is indicative of continued stepping in the right direction).

Not that I'd have any issues with a modern AAA game taking a pure Marathon approach. If it got good reviews we'd get some properly explosive Cody threads.

My point with the Halo series was that while parts of it are weak, like some of Reach, overall the plot was strong enough to lead to many memorable moments and a logical consistency that shone well throughout the marketing and secondary materials as well as Halo 3, which was the best of the series and managed to tie up everything rather nicely.

Destiny's grimoire writing is the same, a solid foundation that makes the rest of the game operate on a better level. Just imagine if they had never bothered with the IB item's names, just some random V jokes ripped from V for Vendetta. People wouldn't have been half as interested in them, and Bungie may not have bothered to make the expansion focused on the Iron Lords. Like Praydeth, a few names scrawled in the margin of a text have been grown and nurtured bit by bit until it turns into a very interesting story mission. The IB lore has grown into an expansion, with more story and cutscenes to tease us.

I admit, a bunch of guardians trying to kill tiny robots doesn't make for epic trailers, but that so far has been my only gripe about this expansion.

Destiny's story is closest to their old Marathon Series, where there was no interaction and the only story evidence was random terminals. If the Grimore was in game, that would exactly describe Destiny.

Edit: And I have to personally disagree on the in-game writing getting better with each expansion. I'll give you Taken King, but nothing prior.

Really?

House of Wolves no better than vanilla or Dark Below?

Quite frankly yes. They were all basically the same in terms of story. In fact, Vanilla was probably the best of the three.

Edit: And I have to personally disagree on the in-game writing getting better with each expansion. I'll give you Taken King, but nothing prior.

Really?

House of Wolves no better than vanilla or Dark Below?

Makes it sound infallible.

Bungie Halo has meh writing, good narrative structure.

The biggest problem with the trilogy is that Halo 2, as good as the writing might feel by itself, left Halo 3 with no plot room to work with.

The Devs play this game, and are looking at the ARG too. I would imagine the good writing there influences things, even if indirectly.

Remember it took an outside company completely rewriting all the canon to kill Halo's story in 4 and 5, and even then we still had some very good scenes with Cortana in 4.

Destiny is the opposite, the game is a void and the backup material is nearly all good. The only way for the game to go is up.

Makes it sound infallible.

I'm cautiously optimistic for Rise of Iron. Even if it is somewhat shorter than The Taken King, I'm hopeful that we might get more from the in game story as it focuses on what happened to the past Iron Lords.

Also, I sent you an email.

So, it is over-the-top skepticism on my part. I have very low expectations on their writing ability for this expansion. I've had two years worth of letdowns with Bungie's storytelling to inform how I'm viewing this.

'Member when Bungie's stories were what set its games apart from everything else at the time? Yeahhhhhhh I member that.....

I remember that, too, which is why I continue to be optimistic (but maybe this really just personality differences?)

I already know that. You're making the argument that I've made for years here to me right now. This reply chain stems from a hope of in-game story maybe being great for this expansion because of how the text-based marketing, a mini-Grimoire of sorts, is portraying the lead-up to this expansion. I have been making the argument for years, most notably to Ragashingo, that the Grimoire is backstory and does not at all reflect upon or translate to in-game storytelling or writing. So I guess thanks for reaffirming all of that for me?

And their writing and storytelling with these expansions has continued to leave one wanting. This expansion's story is going to continue to be an attempt to create some sort of foothold for some sort of in-game universe story since Destiny has largely not had one. That doesn't mean it won't have a story or that it might not be good (I personally don't have high hopes), but if you think an expansion is going to provide the in-game story and plot that two years of this thing has failed to provide, it's not going to happen. Destiny 2 is where it's at. And my hope is that the bits of story they've managed to drop with Taken King and Rise of Iron will finally coalesce into whatever broad vision they have for the Destiny in-game universe as a whole going forward. And they won't be able to realize that merging and progression until the sequel.

I agree that good writing in the grimoire doesn't translate into good writing in the game (and is a different beast, really), but good storytelling can happen in the game and good writing is essential to that. I don't have your psychic powers nor do I understand why a new game is required for in-game storytelling to be great, or maybe I'm just not able to understand that point so let's agree to disagree.

So, it is over-the-top skepticism on my part. I have very low expectations on their writing ability for this expansion. I've had two years worth of letdowns with Bungie's storytelling to inform how I'm viewing this.

'Member when Bungie's stories were what set its games apart from everything else at the time? Yeahhhhhhh I member that.....

And their writing and storytelling with these expansions has continued to leave one wanting. This expansion's story is going to continue to be an attempt to create some sort of foothold for some sort of in-game universe story since Destiny has largely not had one. That doesn't mean it won't have a story or that it might not be good (I personally don't have high hopes), but if you think an expansion is going to provide the in-game story and plot that two years of this thing has failed to provide, it's not going to happen. Destiny 2 is where it's at. And my hope is that the bits of story they've managed to drop with Taken King and Rise of Iron will finally coalesce into whatever broad vision they have for the Destiny in-game universe as a whole going forward. And they won't be able to realize that merging and progression until the sequel.

But it isn't an ARG.

Also, don't hold your breath. The writing in the Grimoire is a thousand years beyond what's in-game. That includes some of this marketing stunt for the expansion. I have very low hopes for their in-game writing for what's left of this game. I'm praying they get their writing on point for Destiny 2 and its expansions. We're in dire need of it.

It's fine to have high hopes for this expansion, isn't it? I believe the in-game writing has gotten better with each expansion. I'm aware that what i post here can come across as over-the-top cheerleading, but your post reads like over-the-top skepticism.

Expectations should be realistic for this expansion. I think it's reasonable to expect it to be on par with HoW. Maybe a little better since this has a raid, but in terms of story we aren't getting very much. Another TTK would be great, but that's not what we are getting.

What does the inclusion of a raid have to do with the quality of the writing or storytelling? You seem to be talking about the size of the expansion, but that's not what I'm talking about.

The past two raids have had story lead ups.