I think you are mostly correct, but the annoying part about Cody (and quite a few others on this forum) is that he refuses to acknowledge how positive the way Destiny works is for so many players other than himself.

I have yet to see a good argument for how the way Destiny works is positive. Sure, people like watching bars fill up and numbers get bigger. I do too! That doesn't make gating the raid behind hours of grinding to actually make that number get bigger and better. The game suffers for it and gains basically nothing because of it. It's a simple solution to just create a path of content that will level you straight into the raid (and ideally set the raid up from a story and gameplay perspective). That's the entire argument--repeating strikes, Nightfalls, Heroics, bounties, etc. over and over is fine if you have a good group of friends and just enjoying doing it. Forcing that repetition is bad, and I don't really see a good argument that holds up saying it's good.

That's what I don't feel like many here understand. No one is saying you shouldn't be able to jump into Destiny and have a good, relaxed time shooting aliens with your friends. But why should you be gated from other fun content if you don't want to do that?

Destiny does have a mode as repeatable as basketball: the crucible.

I'd say the Crucible has a long way to go before it is on par with any successful sport ;)

I don't trash anyone who plays Halo 5 or who likes Halo 5. Do you see me constantly complaining on HBO about it? No. The reason is that in my opinion, Halo 5 has no redeeming value as a video game. I was not impressed by ANY of it. Thus there isn't really anything positive to focus on in terms of possible improvement.

For Destiny, there's some great stuff there. Calls for improvement or criticism could one day lead to a seriously awesome overall experience. If one day Destiny's highs aren't worth grinding through the bad, then yeah. It'll be like Halo 5 and I'll just move on. But that hasn't happened yet.

Forget Halo 5. In a nutshell I said playing with friends is a crucial part of what makes Destiny fun. I don't think you treat it like what it is: a social game. It's all about your very analytical, Cody-centered view of it. Destiny wasn't designed to fit your criteria of what's fun for you and you alone, and I don't think it should be.

Actually, I think most of why Cody doesn't like Destiny is that the content he doesn't like is gating him from the content he does like. If it was flipped the other way it would be fine for him. He would just play the first part without playing the second part. However, because it's not, the stuff he has to go through is bitterness in his mouth. Thus, I can see why he tries to burn through it.

[Edit] This is just speculation, correct me if I'm wrong.

I guess my point is playing the same content again doesn't bother the players who treat it like a social activity. It's akin to playing a pick-up game with friends--it's still fun even though the rules of basketball don't change. I've rarely heard Cody acknowledge the social aspect of the game--it's all about whether his criteria for game design is being met. I think he has unrealistic expectations regarding variety of content, but I just haven't gotten the sense he plays with others very much (or if he does, I'd think that his blue engram blunder would've come to light earlier).

My problem with the "it's a social game" side of this argument is that it sort of implies that the game itself doesn't need to be any good, because it will automatically be fun because your friends are involved. I think there is a certain amount of truth to that (friends make just about everything better), but that doesn't mean the activity itself doesn't need to be inherently great, especially when the activity is supposed to be replayed over and over again. To use your comparison to basketball; if anything in Destiny was 1/10th as replayable as the game of basketball, many of Cody's complaints wouldn't exist. Games like basketball, soccer, football, etc have been tweaked and iterated upon for decades. Very few of the activities in Destiny (or any videogame) have even a fraction of the thought and time put into their design as those sports do.

My other problem with the "Destiny is a social game" argument is that sometimes it is absolutely NOT a social game. The act of playing through the story missions and quest lines with friends is actually a total pain, unless you and your friends happen to be exactly in step with each other's progress. There's so much time spent running around the social spaces, speaking to vendors, go off and do 1 mission, back to the vendors, etc... It's really not conducive to group play until you get PASSED all that stuff. I think Destiny is a spectacular social game 3-4 months after each release, once everyone is done with their own person levelling up and you and your friends can all just group up together and do whatever activities you're in the mood for without worrying about light levels or gear checks or any of that stuff. I believe a large portion of Cody's complaints, and I happen to agree on this point, stem from the fact that Bungie puts dozens (yes Korny, dozens ;p) of hours of playtime in between the launch of an expansion and that point months later when everyone can freely play whatever they want together, and those dozens of hours are spent replaying content that simply isn't good enough to hold up under such repetition. Of course, that last point is totally subjective. But I don't think there is anything wrong with voicing one's opinion either way.

I guess my point is playing the same content again doesn't bother the players who treat it like a social activity. It's akin to playing a pick-up game with friends--it's still fun even though the rules of basketball don't change. I've rarely heard Cody acknowledge the social aspect of the game--it's all about whether his criteria for game design is being met. I think he has unrealistic expectations regarding variety of content, but I just haven't gotten the sense he plays with others very much (or if he does, I'd think that his blue engram blunder would've come to light earlier).

I much prefer playing Dungeons and Dragons with my friends over Destiny. It is real in person interaction, and as a bonus everything we do is new. No repeated quests or stories. Destiny has a large social component that is indeed good, but it's not nearly as good as actual social games.

I don't trash anyone who plays Halo 5 or who likes Halo 5. Do you see me constantly complaining on HBO about it? No. The reason is that in my opinion, Halo 5 has no redeeming value as a video game. I was not impressed by ANY of it. Thus there isn't really anything positive to focus on in terms of possible improvement.

For Destiny, there's some great stuff there. Calls for improvement or criticism could one day lead to a seriously awesome overall experience. If one day Destiny's highs aren't worth grinding through the bad, then yeah. It'll be like Halo 5 and I'll just move on. But that hasn't happened yet.

Forget Halo 5. In a nutshell I said playing with friends is a crucial part of what makes Destiny fun. I don't think you treat it like what it is: a social game. It's all about your very analytical, Cody-centered view of it. Destiny wasn't designed to fit your criteria of what's fun for you and you alone, and I don't think it should be.

Actually, I think most of why Cody doesn't like Destiny is that the content he doesn't like is gating him from the content he does like. If it was flipped the other way it would be fine for him. He would just play the first part without playing the second part. However, because it's not, the stuff he has to go through is bitterness in his mouth. Thus, I can see why he tries to burn through it.

[Edit] This is just speculation, correct me if I'm wrong.

I guess my point is playing the same content again doesn't bother the players who treat it like a social activity. It's akin to playing a pick-up game with friends--it's still fun even though the rules of basketball don't change. I've rarely heard Cody acknowledge the social aspect of the game--it's all about whether his criteria for game design is being met. I think he has unrealistic expectations regarding variety of content, but I just haven't gotten the sense he plays with others very much (or if he does, I'd think that his blue engram blunder would've come to light earlier).

I don't trash anyone who plays Halo 5 or who likes Halo 5. Do you see me constantly complaining on HBO about it? No. The reason is that in my opinion, Halo 5 has no redeeming value as a video game. I was not impressed by ANY of it. Thus there isn't really anything positive to focus on in terms of possible improvement.

For Destiny, there's some great stuff there. Calls for improvement or criticism could one day lead to a seriously awesome overall experience. If one day Destiny's highs aren't worth grinding through the bad, then yeah. It'll be like Halo 5 and I'll just move on. But that hasn't happened yet.

Forget Halo 5. In a nutshell I said playing with friends is a crucial part of what makes Destiny fun. I don't think you treat it like what it is: a social game. It's all about your very analytical, Cody-centered view of it. Destiny wasn't designed to fit your criteria of what's fun for you and you alone, and I don't think it should be.

Actually, I think most of why Cody doesn't like Destiny is that the content he doesn't like is gating him from the content he does like. If it was flipped the other way it would be fine for him. He would just play the first part without playing the second part. However, because it's not, the stuff he has to go through is bitterness in his mouth. Thus, I can see why he tries to burn through it.

[Edit] This is just speculation, correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't trash anyone who plays Halo 5 or who likes Halo 5. Do you see me constantly complaining on HBO about it? No. The reason is that in my opinion, Halo 5 has no redeeming value as a video game. I was not impressed by ANY of it. Thus there isn't really anything positive to focus on in terms of possible improvement.

For Destiny, there's some great stuff there. Calls for improvement or criticism could one day lead to a seriously awesome overall experience. If one day Destiny's highs aren't worth grinding through the bad, then yeah. It'll be like Halo 5 and I'll just move on. But that hasn't happened yet.

Forget Halo 5. In a nutshell I said playing with friends is a crucial part of what makes Destiny fun. I don't think you treat it like what it is: a social game. It's all about your very analytical, Cody-centered view of it. Destiny wasn't designed to fit your criteria of what's fun for you and you alone, and I don't think it should be.

Destiny is absolutely a social game. I can tell you right now that I would not be still playing it if it were not for this website and the people who play with me here. It's a huge aspect of what makes Destiny 'fun'. I have a friend who tried Destiny, and not having access to a community or friends who also play it, found the game to be really lacking. He quit and never played again.

Both he and I are right. That's the weird duality to this game.

I don't trash anyone who plays Halo 5 or who likes Halo 5. Do you see me constantly complaining on HBO about it? No. The reason is that in my opinion, Halo 5 has no redeeming value as a video game. I was not impressed by ANY of it. Thus there isn't really anything positive to focus on in terms of possible improvement.

For Destiny, there's some great stuff there. Calls for improvement or criticism could one day lead to a seriously awesome overall experience. If one day Destiny's highs aren't worth grinding through the bad, then yeah. It'll be like Halo 5 and I'll just move on. But that hasn't happened yet.

Forget Halo 5. In a nutshell I said playing with friends is a crucial part of what makes Destiny fun. I don't think you treat it like what it is: a social game. It's all about your very analytical, Cody-centered view of it. Destiny wasn't designed to fit your criteria of what's fun for you and you alone, and I don't think it should be.

For Destiny, there's some great stuff there. Calls for improvement or criticism could one day lead to a seriously awesome overall experience. If one day Destiny's highs aren't worth grinding through the bad, then yeah. It'll be like Halo 5 and I'll just move on. But that hasn't happened yet.

In the case of Destiny, though, let’s think about what it is. It is primarily a social game. It is designed to be played with others, preferably friends. I’m not criticizing Destiny or the wonderful people on this forum, when I say that I think the people who have the most ideal experience of Destiny are those who have friends who play--friends who have a similar schedule and skill level, friends whose company they enjoy, in real life and while playing the game. Actual friends, in other words. Friends who would be friends with or without Destiny. (I don’t quite feel like one of those people, BTW. I feel like I have friends here, but whether it’s schedules or skill levels or what have you, I feel like I have to struggle to find five people who have the patience to wait for me in order to carry me through a raid unspoiled.)

Let’s call these people who play with their friends Destiny’s core fans. The core fans played the same activities in Halo 2 and Halo 3 almost nightly because they had fun doing it, especially with friends. Some of the core fans care about the same things you care about--improving, mastering the game, and so on, but that’s not their focus. Many of the core fans hit a plateau of mastery long ago, and don’t care that they did. They just plain enjoy playing Destiny for the fun of it. A big part of that is it’s a hobby that they can enjoy with friends. And unlike Halo games, Destiny has something new—a progression system. Love it or hate it, drops provide a metagame that some of us gearheads enjoy for what it is, which is gravy on top of the fun we already having (because we’re playing with friends, remember?).

You described the boring activities, but you know what I know? When I get bored I stop doing what I’m doing, and even with the pressure to level up, I’ve yet to be bored playing The Rise of Iron. There’s always a new weapon or strategy I’m trying out. And then there’s the missing ingredient: when I’m playing with friends, I don’t really care if we get the same strike again. It’s a chance to do it better, and push comes to shove, I enjoy the time regardless.

Don’t you and your friends have a favorite bar you like to go, not because it’s new and different, but because it’s familiar? Or are you the guy who everyone has to accommodate because you’ve already had all the beers they offer on tap, and you want to go to the new place across town. I mean, that’s fine, but you might not have the social experience in the other bar, and that may be fine with you, too. Really, though, if your friends stay at the familiar bar, is there really much to gain by trashing their choice?

And since we've established that the Raid can be done with 350s in your team (unless you're terrible, like Avateur)

A Raid is a team thing, and our mechanics are flawless. It was a team DPS failure. I'm terrible for other reasons, Trollymunky. Btw, off topic, but that GV stuff at HBO? Hilarious!

Is disappointing. Do you just feed on awful negativity?

Well, it is telling that the thought of 'trolling' led him to thoughts on the HBO post. :)

- MacGyver10

3 Eris rank up packages have netted me zero artifacts and 30 or so heroic strikes have netted me 1 skeleton key.

Life so crazy.

Yeah, RNG is a bitch. The first day of strikes I got no keys then I decided to do it a second day, within 5 strikes I got two keys back to back.

Life so crazy.

For my artifact. I had a 386 artifact come from a skeleton key chest on the heroric strikes. Before that, I was stuck at 374 for my artifact which had drop from a previous skeleton key chest. Again, all RNG based

Do you decode one at a time? For example, I started Rise of Iron at 334. For every blue engram I got, I would just decrypt one. Say it decrypted into a chest piece. If the light level happened to be higher than my current chest piece, I'd infuse it. Then I would go back and decrypt the next one and repeat the process.

Sure, every now and then they'll decrypt below the light level or even with the light level of your current item, but by not decrypting them in batches, you maximize your chance of higher light overall. Well, until 340 anyway.

Oh yeah, after every decrypt I would swap out if the new item was better than the old. I literally had a string of like, 8 decrypts where the blue was either the same level as my character or one above, except the gear I had equipped in those slots was two above my character. Therefore it was all useless :(

But I'm ok now. Some better decrypts tonight and a new Ghost shell from the Vanguard later and I'm 340 now. Not too bad for only a few days of semi-casual play.