and I kind of like it.

As far as maps go, Icarus probably has the worst spawn system of any Bungie map to date, and is far too small to ever get solid map control... And it's all the better for it. I've compared it to Nuketown from Call of Duty, which is more or less a joke map that everyone loves to play (it's even gotten its own "Nuketown 24/7" playlists).

Supremacy on that map is just a huge fun mess, and a frantic tug-of-war more often than not.

I'll look forward to that when I get back on the PS4.

Here's a look into a single life on the map.

Starts out slow, before becoming a frantic mess, where no place on the map is safe...

Just started playing tonight. I absolutely dominate at this thing. It's a fun time. Good job Bungie! Now bring SRL back and make it permanent. And focus on competitive play in Destiny 2.

Seriously, I'm on board with your entire platform.

Yeah... I'm usually really good at knowing what's going on around me just by doing a bit of rangefinding with my radar. A little quarter turn and back usually lets me pinpoint where an enemy is and if there are more than one of them... Except it Supremacy its like I see someone at the edge of Radar range and cautiously move up and then 7 enemies appear from all directions except the one indicated on my radar...

I guess because everyone is titan skating so fast that a blip on the edge now means they're one second from shotgun range??

I think it's just a general lack of caution. People just charge around a lot more in Supremacy instead of playing cautiously and defending points.

The damage difference in light levels is apparently not noticeable in terms of shots to kill until 20 light levels of disparity. You shouldn't have any trouble OHKing with a shotgun at 10-15 light difference. That being said, they did also reintroduce The Matador which has absurd range and fires quickly, so it's possible you're just meeting some people with super high range shotties.

I, for one, have been using The Chaperone exclusively during IB and Trials in order to compete with the high range Matadors. God I love that gun.

I didnt think it made a difference either, but I did not run into these issues until trials came out and now IB. I forgot how to snipe when I came into RoI, and tried shotgunning halfway through my first trials, but ended up having to switch to sniping. I don't have the data to back it up right now, I will try and record some games this weekend If I shotgun.

Hmm. I tried to look up an article I saw on Reddit about light level differences but I can't find one that references shotguns specifically. For sniper rifles the difference from two body shots to 1 is 20 light levels. For hand cannons the difference between 3 shots (1 crit, 2 body) and 2 shots (2 crit) appears to be 15-20 light levels depending on how much armor the target is running. Nothing on shotguns that I can find. Sorry. Anecdotally I noticed no difference with my PC+1 when I was 370 light re: ranges where I expect to get a kill from. That being said, it's clearly outclassed by the Matadors running wild all over, which is why I changes to Chappy.

And Yes, I have seen alot of chaperone lately.

Really?? I'm the only I've seen using it since IB came out.

The damage difference in light levels is apparently not noticeable in terms of shots to kill until 20 light levels of disparity. You shouldn't have any trouble OHKing with a shotgun at 10-15 light difference. That being said, they did also reintroduce The Matador which has absurd range and fires quickly, so it's possible you're just meeting some people with super high range shotties.

I, for one, have been using The Chaperone exclusively during IB and Trials in order to compete with the high range Matadors. God I love that gun.

I didnt think it made a difference either, but I did not run into these issues until trials came out and now IB. I forgot how to snipe when I came into RoI, and tried shotgunning halfway through my first trials, but ended up having to switch to sniping. I don't have the data to back it up right now, I will try and record some games this weekend If I shotgun.

And Yes, I have seen alot of chaperone lately.

I, for one, have been using The Chaperone exclusively during IB and Trials in order to compete with the high range Matadors. God I love that gun.

If all of the map design favors frenetic movement and shotguns, why even use snipers? Well, it also favors quickscoping, because a OHK at any range is better than a OHK at close range only. So players like RealKraftyy and TrueVanguard who are terrific quick scope snipers excelled at this game. Now, with the sniper nerfs, the weapon type has been neutered. It's practically useless. So sniping is out.

Another tip here is to play the game that IS and not the game you wish it were. Like snipers but not shotguns? Tough luck dude. The meta favors shotguns, the maps favor shotguns, and this game mode favors shotguns. Play with anything that isn't a shotgun and you're gonna have a rough time. This is poor design and balance on the part of Bungie, but it's the fact we have to grapple with, and if you want to win, you're going to need to get with their program, I'm sorry to say.

I agree with you on all of this. The problem I currently run into is not being high enough light to OHK with my shotgun. I'm currently 370-371 on all classes, and it seems like every game I run into several people 383+ who take nice shotgun blasts and survive them. Sure sometimes I can follow up with a melee, but most of the time I am already dead from their shotgun blast. I have found it better for me to play more supportive and focus on cutting off flanks and getting kills from afar than running around with a pea-shooting shotgun. Its worked well for me I think (somehow still end up towards the top of the leaderboard with crest pick ups?!)

Once I started doing that, I have found the benefit of Sniping in Supremacy! Shutting down Supers!

One Stormcaller, in a gamemode where people run together, can easily get 10 points in one super. Thats 1/15 the required winning score, which is pretty substantial. And that is just one super, which is going to create orbs for more. If I can snipe one or 2 supers (especially storm callers or hammerbros) I might as well be denying several friendly crests. It doesn't show on the scoreboard, but it does make a difference.

Of course, this is only if you can snipe fast and the rest of your team is decent enough for you to play like this. Once my lights a little higher I'll use shotguns more in supremacy.

TLDR: If you are having light level issues, try Sniping!

Heck imagine a map similar to the new strike that has all the round walkways but you have to jump to the center platforms and over to get around? But make it narrower. And taller! Try sniping straight down on opponents (that would be really tough).

The maps in Destiny do a horrible job of utilizing vertical space for long range shooters. A hallmark of games like CoD and Counterstrike is having rooms that are "sniper perches." There's only one way into the room, and it has a window through which you can see a large majority of the open space on a given map. The room is also almost always elevated which provides a more clear shot. In a game mode like supremacy, this provides an advantage>

It provides a camping spot for people to camp. This is a poor choice for a mobile game mode in a very mobile game archtype. Please keep to elimination if you want that playstyle.

As far as primaries go, you can do well with scouts. If anything I feel pulses are too good across too much of the various range bands, and that is what crowds out HCs and Scouts. Scouts Rof and TTK are too high for short range work, and HCs can't hit anything at medium to long range, but Pulses work fine across the whole range band and are competitive with the best of class in each. There needs to be a tradeoff like the other weapons.

Likewise fusions are hard capped by the charge mechanic, so people avoid them and go shotgun. Shotguns would be Ok except you have Matadors and PC+1 which can kill you from a fair distance.

Bungie needs to invert the Damage/Range types so the high impact types all have low range, and the low impact all have high range. That way the OHK need to work a bit more instead of Jugg/Shotty across the field.

I would say that Bungie doesn't care about competitive play, so that may not be a thing. I don't think competitive play has really been a priority since Halo 3. Don't get me wrong, I agree with you on so many levels, but I think Destiny's main priority for Bungie was the social aspects and whatnot. The lack of dedicated servers in this thing from day one I think showed all of their intent right out of the gate.

I fully agree with you. It's just a shame, because the potential for Destiny to become *the* competitive FPS game is certainly there. They've nailed movement and gun feel. Still need polish on weapon balance, but they've come a long way. When there's no lag, the game is really great to play. I feel like things are bit chaotic as we all get a feel for how the Iron relics affect gameplay, but once that settles down everything should go back to being smooth as butter. The trials mode, especially, feels like a chess match - it's great.