This ain't the Halo 2 days, folks. It's okay to rotate games. I mean, I enjoyed mainlining Halo 3 straight to the veins but it's absolutely destroyed me wanting to ever go back to those games. It's like trying to read an old tattered book.

I agree with your posts basically whole-heartedly. Destiny is the last game I'd have any desire to play right now. And however you intended it, it came off as snarky and nearly combative (your reply to narc--I thought your initial post was fine), to me anyway. But that's maybe just as much my fault, too. Years of the internet, but especially Reddit, have trained me to read everything in just about the worst light possible. I think that's something we could all work on, from all sides.

Is anyone else seeing a pattern here or is it just me?

Other than you being a sarcastic jerk, no . . .

Every post you've made in this thread comes off as overly condescending, and I'm not quite sure what you get out of that. Be a dick about the game if you want to (I certainly often am--I frequently feel like the most negative person on this forum), but I don't really understand how the attitude you're displaying here benefits anyone.

Narc replied with a pretty innocuous comment and you went off the fucking deep end.

Thank You for your honesty. I don't see what (at the very least) you two see; through I suppose I have the benefit of knowing the tone as I wrote it versus interpreting the tone as I wrote it. I harbor no ill will, and hoped the words would do the work, and speak what I implied. It would seem I was wrong.

To me, it seems there is far more emotion then there should be for this subject. All the same, I'll look over my post again. Try to see what I missed, if I can. I don't understand.
----------------------------------------------------------------

Edit: If I distance myself to what is written and simply think about the emotional content of the words, I can see how some parts could be interpreted as blasé, indifferent, and/or aloof (particularly in the later texts). Sometimes my head thinks more then it feels, so that is on me. As I recall, I've done such once before (as far as I know) on this forum, where Snipe posted that I should probably shut up (or something to that effect), which I did. This feels to be about the same.

That said, I still find it reprehensibly silly that it was presumed that I was speaking about ALL of Destiny for its entire existence. I spoke about Destiny as I see it now (as was implied in the original post title, not mine... the ORIGINAL), gave the the basis of such a conclusion (I've played everything I care to), and gave the contrast that pushed to the edge (SO. MANY. OTHER. GAMES).

Unless there is more input, I don't think there is much else to say.

Is anyone else seeing a pattern here or is it just me?

Other than you being a sarcastic jerk, no . . .

Every post you've made in this thread comes off as overly condescending, and I'm not quite sure what you get out of that. Be a dick about the game if you want to (I certainly often am--I frequently feel like the most negative person on this forum), but I don't really understand how the attitude you're displaying here benefits anyone.

Narc replied with a pretty innocuous comment and you went off the fucking deep end.

narcogen: It has a become a strange world in which admitting that one plays other games is evidence of failure on the part of Bungie's designers, and that visiting once in awhile is not "playing" a game, and having done everything you want is somehow a disappointment.

I don't get it.

[Pointless meme snipped] Pointless meme wasn't pointless, hence it being there. Expressing surprise in the escalation of emotion and amount of content. Rhetorically speaking Why so serious?

I've been sitting here with my mouth open for about... five minutes. Flabbergasted. Not only of this comment, but of the size of the chain below it.

Flabbergasted by what? Seriously, I'm asking. See pointless meme clarification above.

[Pointless meme snipped] ... moveing along ...

It would appear some clarification is in order to ween us away from this stunning interpretation.

What is stunning about it? Again... see above.

A thread was posting asking if people are still playing Destiny, presumably wondering who is, and if so, why, and if not, why not. Yes...

Your original, unembellished post starts off with the subject "meh" as if it is barely worth your effort to have a reaction or to properly verbalize it, and then proceeds to make the following assertions: Actually, it's the summery of my thoughts, hence title, towards "How are you guys still playing Destiny?" to which I should add I instantly changed the question into "If I was still playing Destiny?" so if you wish to nit pick here is your chance, through at the very least it seems we both made that interpretation. That said, this is why "Meh" it is the title. That is how I overall feel about it at this point. A big 'ol colossal MEH.

"...play destiny? What is there to play?"

You are essentially mocking the question and the person who asked it by saying that the question cannot be asked because Destiny is currently not a thing which can be played. You are going far, far beyond saying why you are not playing, and suggesting that others who are engaged with the game are apparently not playing, because there is nothing there to be played. I will admit that this particular wording should be "What is there to play... at this point?", but I'm surprised it needs to be. Yet with that said I find the emotion you imply utterly bewildering. I'll spare you the image. Wow. That escalated quickly. You speak as if I am acting with spiteful purpose. I don't understand. I commented on how I felt about it and that is that. Problem?

Some of this is expected with Bungie design sensibilities of reusing everything as much as possible

Now comes the why, apparently. You say that Bungie's design sensibilities consist of "reusing everything as much as possible" and this explains why you've already

done everything I conceivably wanted to do in every conceivable fashion

This is a common criticism of the game; that it is repetitive, and designed to be so. You've basically turned the original question on its head-- that not only are you not playing the game because it is repetitive, but that Bungie's design sensibilities lead to this inevitably. As if many other online PVE games are played often three years into release without repetition, somehow. It seems to me, that in your nit picking, you have missed the main point in my whole post... AKA It would appear some clarification is in order to ween us away from this stunning interpretation.It would also appear you missed it again. I shall try again to be even more blunt before this post is done.

So lets go into my yammering and poke at it.

You know what? Let's not. Let's look at what you actually wrote and what it actually says, instead of just saying lol sarcasm or talking about what you meant when you said something, or just... coloring things randomly. *Sigh*

Instead let's look at the crux of what you wrote and why I bothered to respond to it.

now... there are other games. Other worlds. Other Experiences. ... and it's actually fun.

The key word here is "actually". You could simply have said you were playing other games and having fun, and I probably wouldn't have answered at all. There is nothing unusual about moving on from a game, playing other games, and having fun. In fact, not doing so might be more unusual-- which might even have been the point of the original poster's question. Ugh. I had hoped... even though I know better. Even though I've been burned countless times before. Wording wording wording. Flippen-Freekn-A. I had hoped it would be implied that I wasn't speaking about Destiny in it's whole, but about Destiny at this point hence the title keyword "STILL". While I imagine this won't come across has sincere due to the current pattern, I'm sorry if I somehow have offended you. Your tone certainly makes it seem so.

The use of "actually" here implies a contrast, ...*at this point* however. It implies that playing these other new games is "actually" fun...*at this point*, while playing Destiny is not "actually" fun...*at this point*, and this contrast is made without respect to time, meaning it could be interpreted as meaning that Destiny is no longer fun...*at this point*, but it was earlier OH!... , or that Destiny was never oh!.., in actual fact, fun, but only seemed so until one stopped playing Ugh... for a moment there was light. This is also not an uncommon criticism of Destiny by those who feel drawn or compelled to complete quests, find loot, tick boxes, and to use those mechanics as the reason for picking up the game, instead of using them once they've picked up the game as a way of deciding what parts of it to experience.

In your next post, you added some explication that doesn't really explain, but again turns the question back against the questioner:

In the frame of videogames, If you had a choice between running down the same darned corridor for the 5000th time, where you know where every mote of dust lies, or running down an unknown dark hallway that has yet to be filled with light, which would you choose? Is the choice I have made really so odd?

No, not at all! Your use of "actually" implies, however, that the opposite choice you consider to be odd, and again, that's why I replied. The way you describe it above indicates not only that you don't find it fun, but that you struggle to understand how anyone else could. Is anyone else seeing a pattern here or is it just me?

5000 times? That might apply to vanilla content, but each of the last two expansions added new strikes, new patrol areas, and a new Raid. I've actually only completed WotM *once* so far, and never on hard or challenge mode yet. I haven't even hit 400 yet, and I'm sure many others haven't either.

Even in vanilla content I often look at some corner and see a detail I never noticed before; and more often than not, that light at the end of the dark tunnel in a supposedly new game just turns out to be a variation on a theme, no less so than any twist, modification or re-use of content than Bungie has made so far to Destiny in the past two years. Cool! Fantastic. Go! Kick ass and chew bubblegum!

And then your parting shot... Oh geeeeeeez.

Why would I be playing Destiny? I can only hope that Bungie makes that question a mantra in the coming mouths ahead.

I'm sure they never thought of that until you asked. All Bungie fans must be grateful for your stunning and revealing honesty! What is this farce? Are you serious right now? You are being utterly ridiculous, and I fear I may have to explain. Check your emotions dude. Do you really think Bungie is insulted? I mean... you make it sound like I'm car15. You presume my intent, and you missed.

You are suggesting that those who are still playing and seemingly having fun are somehow ignorant or unaware of the game's actual nature-- that if they, too, only stopped to ask themselves "why would I play Destiny" they would realize they are not actually having fun and stop. I.... I am? O_o Dude. This. I. ... What!?

[snip]

ALSO DESTINY IS THR WORST GAME EVER AND BLAH BLAH BLHA

You didn't say that, and didn't say you said that. You implied that Destiny is not, and perhaps never was, "actually" fun to play, and tacked on a thinly disguised "BUNGIE FIX YO SHIT" implying that that the poster and others still playing the game continue to do so only because they lack your level of introspection. Actually I was mocking you, as that is what your tone in your first reply post to mine was saying and based on what I am reading here, you really should be mocked in this instance with your utter mania-like overreaction. It's comical. I just can't take what you are saying seriously in part due to your manner.

I'm not putting a sarcasm tag because hopefully at least one person here can figure it out. If no one here can, well, I'm fu**ed.

I guess you're f***ed then? If you didn't intend the initial post to mean what it says, then I don't know why you wrote it. If you mean the opposite of what this post says, then I don't know why you wrote it. *Sigh*

Also, what happened to SIX GAME? Skyrim and Fallout don't count as one game considering the scope.

I do get that you like Mass Effect. Me, too! Cautiously optimistic about ME4-- ME1 drew me in enough to see the series through to the end, despite a *lot* of changes (some good, some bad) along the way. I'm waiting so see if what they propose in Andromeda is engaging enough to keep playing now that the game is essentially a third person shooter with RPG elements instead of an RPG with some third person shooter elements.

I know I know. Can't wait! :D ... also key words "Ready for another adventure"
----------------------------------------
You cut a portion of my quote where I talk about games, and the number of those games. Whether it's because you had nothing to say about it, or you thought it wasn't relevant as of right now does not matter. As promised I'm going to try and be as BLUNT as I can. And I'll even do it with out the bold and the green.

Alright. Key points. Played Destiny till bloody. Other games. New Adventures.

Decipher. GO!

Shit. Do I still have to hold a hand? I don't know. But I'm post'n this sucker and we get to find out together! WOO!

narcogen: It has a become a strange world in which admitting that one plays other games is evidence of failure on the part of Bungie's designers, and that visiting once in awhile is not "playing" a game, and having done everything you want is somehow a disappointment.

I don't get it.

[Pointless meme snipped]

I've been sitting here with my mouth open for about... five minutes. Flabbergasted. Not only of this comment, but of the size of the chain below it.

Flabbergasted by what? Seriously, I'm asking.

[Pointless meme snipped]

It would appear some clarification is in order to ween us away from this stunning interpretation.

What is stunning about it?

A thread was posting asking if people are still playing Destiny, presumably wondering who is, and if so, why, and if not, why not.

Your original, unembellished post starts off with the subject "meh" as if it is barely worth your effort to have a reaction or to properly verbalize it, and then proceeds to make the following assertions:

"...play destiny? What is there to play?"

You are essentially mocking the question and the person who asked it by saying that the question cannot be asked because Destiny is currently not a thing which can be played. You are going far, far beyond saying why you are not playing, and suggesting that others who are engaged with the game are apparently not playing, because there is nothing there to be played.

Some of this is expected with Bungie design sensibilities of reusing everything as much as possible

Now comes the why, apparently. You say that Bungie's design sensibilities consist of "reusing everything as much as possible" and this explains why you've already

done everything I conceivably wanted to do in every conceivable fashion

This is a common criticism of the game; that it is repetitive, and designed to be so. You've basically turned the original question on its head-- that not only are you not playing the game because it is repetitive, but that Bungie's design sensibilities lead to this inevitably. As if many other online PVE games are played often three years into release without repetition, somehow.

So lets go into my yammering and poke at it.

You know what? Let's not. Let's look at what you actually wrote and what it actually says, instead of just saying lol sarcasm or talking about what you meant when you said something, or just... coloring things randomly.

Instead let's look at the crux of what you wrote and why I bothered to respond to it.

now... there are other games. Other worlds. Other Experiences. ... and it's actually fun.

The key word here is "actually". You could simply have said you were playing other games and having fun, and I probably wouldn't have answered at all. There is nothing unusual about moving on from a game, playing other games, and having fun. In fact, not doing so might be more unusual-- which might even have been the point of the original poster's question.

The use of "actually" here implies a contrast, however. It implies that playing these other new games is "actually" fun, while playing Destiny is not "actually" fun, and this contrast is made without respect to time, meaning it could be interpreted as meaning that Destiny is no longer fun, but it was earlier, or that Destiny was never, in actual fact, fun, but only seemed so until one stopped playing. This is also not an uncommon criticism of Destiny by those who feel drawn or compelled to complete quests, find loot, tick boxes, and to use those mechanics as the reason for picking up the game, instead of using them once they've picked up the game as a way of deciding what parts of it to experience.

In your next post, you added some explication that doesn't really explain, but again turns the question back against the questioner:

In the frame of videogames, If you had a choice between running down the same darned corridor for the 5000th time, where you know where every mote of dust lies, or running down an unknown dark hallway that has yet to be filled with light, which would you choose? Is the choice I have made really so odd?

No, not at all! Your use of "actually" implies, however, that the opposite choice you consider to be odd, and again, that's why I replied. The way you describe it above indicates not only that you don't find it fun, but that you struggle to understand how anyone else could.

5000 times? That might apply to vanilla content, but each of the last two expansions added new strikes, new patrol areas, and a new Raid. I've actually only completed WotM *once* so far, and never on hard or challenge mode yet. I haven't even hit 400 yet, and I'm sure many others haven't either.

Even in vanilla content I often look at some corner and see a detail I never noticed before; and more often than not, that light at the end of the dark tunnel in a supposedly new game just turns out to be a variation on a theme, no less so than any twist, modification or re-use of content than Bungie has made so far to Destiny in the past two years.

And then your parting shot...

Why would I be playing Destiny? I can only hope that Bungie makes that question a mantra in the coming mouths ahead.

I'm sure they never thought of that until you asked. All Bungie fans must be grateful for your stunning and revealing honesty!

You are suggesting that those who are still playing and seemingly having fun are somehow ignorant or unaware of the game's actual nature-- that if they, too, only stopped to ask themselves "why would I play Destiny" they would realize they are not actually having fun and stop.

[snip]

ALSO DESTINY IS THR WORST GAME EVER AND BLAH BLAH BLHA

You didn't say that, and didn't say you said that. You implied that Destiny is not, and perhaps never was, "actually" fun to play, and tacked on a thinly disguised "BUNGIE FIX YO SHIT" implying that that the poster and others still playing the game continue to do so only because they lack your level of introspection.

I'm not putting a sarcasm tag because hopefully at least one person here can figure it out. If no one here can, well, I'm fu**ed.

I guess you're f***ed then? If you didn't intend the initial post to mean what it says, then I don't know why you wrote it. If you mean the opposite of what this post says, then I don't know why you wrote it.

Also, what happened to SIX GAME?

I do get that you like Mass Effect. Me, too! Cautiously optimistic about ME4-- ME1 drew me in enough to see the series through to the end, despite a *lot* of changes (some good, some bad) along the way. I'm waiting so see if what they propose in Andromeda is engaging enough to keep playing now that the game is essentially a third person shooter with RPG elements instead of an RPG with some third person shooter elements.

This seems to me to be a fundamental difference between the two activities, one that the linked article does not address (and appears to implicitly assume that the type of reward is irrelevant). Additional cursory research didn't shed any further light on that question.

So when it comes to Destiny, when I'm playing well in the Crucible, it is one of the most gratifying feelings. Going on a kill streak, or just being on point with my sniping makes me feel amazing. I've never played a game that when I'm playing well felt so good as Destiny. I've never been that good at other PvP environments, but something about Destiny allows me to play in a way I like and can often reward me for it (though not in in-game rewards :) ).

Now, when I play poorly, or my connection sucks, or I'm put in a room of people who's ELOs are all 600 pts above mine, Destiny sucks big time. It is the worst. I have broken my couch, a table, I have kicked my chair across the room, punched my desk hundreds of times. It is the most infuriating game I have ever played because sometimes there is simply no discernible difference between how well I played one day to how horrible the next days experience is. I have stopped playing as much lately because of this. I even went so far as to delete the game from both my consoles.

But... and this brings me finally to my point, I couldn't stay away long, because I'm not terribly interested in other games and frankly, I want something to veg to for a couple hours at night. I wish I had the energy to just keep being productive and working on my side projects, but I don't always. This is why I describe it as inertia. It's more friction for me to fire up another game. I'm not an adventurous person, I don't want to waste time (or especially money) on something I might not like. If it weren't for Robot and Rellekh telling me to buy Destiny, I'd probably never would have and would have never met you guys.

So yeah, I play Destiny because it's more work to play something else. Though, honestly, at this point, I wish I had the strength to quit except during Iron Banner. I love playing Iron Banner with all of you.

I disagree with some of what is said in that article...

I'd never say that Skinner-box game design is inherently bad, but there are a lot of places where it's clearly abused, or used clumsily. Adding a Skinner box to a strong set of mechanics is fine.

I somewhat disagree with that statement, not super strongly mind you, but I still disagree. Goodness, I still play Destiny despite my disagreement. However, I think Destiny would be a better game with less random reward. Random reward, while it sounds fun to me, puts a bitter taste in my mouth when I experience it or give it some serious thought. My mind goes back to the early 2000's, I think of Diablo and my roommates and their friends who were obsessed with Diablo. Fortunately the game didn't appeal to me and I was able to see how completely hooked they were... They had been turned into rats in a cage trained to click a button. Now Diablo without the random reward wouldn't be nearly the same game. The gameplay and story might sustain one through a single playthrough, but I doubt you'd see more than a few people playing through the game repeatedly.

Aside: I'd seriously love to see a study of people playing Dark Souls to see if some people get most of their dopamine from the moment-to-moment successful dodges and strikes, while others get the larger rewards from major milestones like completing boss fights, acquiring weapons, or reaching new content. I don't have anything to back this up, other than the fact that it would retroactively make every Dark Souls flame war make a lot more sense. The divide between Dark Souls fans and Dark Souls haters is so intense, and people cross lines so rarely, that I suspect there might be some physiology involved.

I believe we could simply replace Dark Souls with Destiny and that paragraph would be perfect fit. I think it would be VERY interesting to do a study on people here & see if there's a correlation to their physiological response to playing Destiny and their attitudes/opinions about the game. I think he's right, there's probably an actual physiological reason why some are turned off by Destiny while others aren't.

I think there is a direct correlation between the elements of Destiny that each of us enjoy, whether or not those elements are part of the game's skinner box design, and our frustrations with the game (or lack there of). As I've said many times, 99% of Destiny's replay value (for me) comes from the gear. Playing with the different weapons and armor, experimenting with different builds and playstyles... THAT is a huge part of what makes this game enjoyable to me. Which also explains why I have so many frustrations with the game. A large portion of what I want from Destiny is trapped behind RNG and/or light level barriers, both of which only serve to artificially inflate my playtime with the game. Get that stuff out of the way, and I would almost certainly spend fewer hours playing Destiny. But, I would enjoy my time with the game far more than I do now.

On the flip side, there are plenty of people who get their enjoyment from Destiny simply by playing the story missions, running the occasional strike or crucible session... I wish that was the part of Destiny that I enjoyed. For me, those activities just aren't very fun on their own. There is not enough variety or depth inherent in the activities to make me ever want to play them. I need to bring my own variety to them through new and different pieces of gear.

Any time this topic comes up, my mind jumps back to what Jason Jones said a couple years back about making a game that people could replay over and over and over, like they did with Halo, but give them little rewards or new things to accomplish along the way. And I still think that idea is fantastic. However, when it comes to Destiny's execution, I don't think Bungie created a game that is anywhere near as fun or replayable as Halo was (subjective, of course). The rewards have become the very thing that drives the desire to replay most of the content. For some players, it is very difficult to think of loot drops as "a fun little reward" when the loot is the only reason you're playing.

It's also worth pointing out that I'm not talking about completionists who want to get loot just to have it. The reason I care about getting certain gear is because I want to play with it. So withholding that behind an RNG wall, and then making that gear obsolete due to unnecessary light level inflations is a particularly player unfriendly 1-2 punch.

I'd never say that Skinner-box game design is inherently bad, but there are a lot of places where it's clearly abused, or used clumsily. Adding a Skinner box to a strong set of mechanics is fine.

I somewhat disagree with that statement, not super strongly mind you, but I still disagree. Goodness, I still play Destiny despite my disagreement. However, I think Destiny would be a better game with less random reward. Random reward, while it sounds fun to me, puts a bitter taste in my mouth when I experience it or give it some serious thought. My mind goes back to the early 2000's, I think of Diablo and my roommates and their friends who were obsessed with Diablo. Fortunately the game didn't appeal to me and I was able to see how completely hooked they were... They had been turned into rats in a cage trained to click a button. Now Diablo without the random reward wouldn't be nearly the same game. The gameplay and story might sustain one through a single playthrough, but I doubt you'd see more than a few people playing through the game repeatedly.

Aside: I'd seriously love to see a study of people playing Dark Souls to see if some people get most of their dopamine from the moment-to-moment successful dodges and strikes, while others get the larger rewards from major milestones like completing boss fights, acquiring weapons, or reaching new content. I don't have anything to back this up, other than the fact that it would retroactively make every Dark Souls flame war make a lot more sense. The divide between Dark Souls fans and Dark Souls haters is so intense, and people cross lines so rarely, that I suspect there might be some physiology involved.

I believe we could simply replace Dark Souls with Destiny and that paragraph would be perfect fit. I think it would be VERY interesting to do a study on people here & see if there's a correlation to their physiological response to playing Destiny and their attitudes/opinions about the game. I think he's right, there's probably an actual physiological reason why some are turned off by Destiny while others aren't.

Totally. F*** this game.

So, anyone want to nightfall tonight? I'm still working on my RoI record book. I'm also down for some crucible, or strikes, or dailies, or anything really. Some patrols are fun too, I just bought a new sparrow that matches my shader so I'm excited to show off my whole look. I really do love this game.

But like I said before...F this S.

;)

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/columns/experienced-points/15510-Skinner-Boxes-and-How-Game...

I feel like I've shown multiple times that I understand that many of you like just hopping into Destiny and doing whatever, and that's awesome, but you've yet to show that you understand that there are some of us that literally can't play the things in Destiny we want to play without going through hours of stuff we just don't. You can't just pretend it's not a real problem and tell me it's my fault and that I shouldn't play if I don't want to play, when that's exactly what I've been doing for nearly a year now. You're actual literal words that said I could be raid ready in a few days is ridiculous to me. Why should I have to play a few day's worth of content that I don't want to in order to do the one activity I would actively enjoy? If the story content took a few days and led directly to me being ready to raid, that would be entirely different situation, and a welcome one, but that's not the case.

Fair enough.

I think Destiny's Raids are too iconic and are too much a focus of each expansion to be something that players cannot do even though they have completed all the new Missions and Strikes for that Raid's expansion. Further, the challenge of the Raids at the base level should be the puzzles and natural battles against equal leveled enemies. Making base level Raids a battle against overleveled enemies has never sat well with me. It feels contrived to have to level up to play Raids without a massive disadvantage.

The other stuff that's been talked about though? Things like Trials or Iron Banner or hard mode Raids? Those should be reserved for the people who want something extra to reach for and accomplish. If you don't want to do extra work then things like the Elimination playlist, regular non-Light Level Crucible, and the base level Raids should exist to let you have much of the same experience. But the special loot and destinations (like the Lighthouse) and bragging rights should be reserved for those who reach for them.