but I’m kinda hoping that we get Marathon something or other after all that hinting years ago that they may do a thing.

New Bungie IP please.

You mean the one NETEASE invested in? LOL.

Tough call on that one. If it’s what you’ve described in the past, ew. I hope they have something cool on the spear. Also, while not a new IP and also it’s probably an unreasonable expectation, but I’m kinda hoping that we get Marathon something or other after all that hinting years ago that they may do a thing.

Is Destiny now just the model for Bungie going forward? I hope not.

I'd love to see a world where Destiny is their huge thing for the next decade (or longer) that makes tons of money that they then use to fund the next ODST or whatever cool, small experiment they might have brewing.

Luna Journal: A 160-page journal featuring additional story content that is bound with the mysterious charms and talismans of Eris Morn.

I grabbed the nearest shutupandtakemymoney.jpg then found my wallet. We’ll see how it compares to the Halsey Journal, but I’m hopeful it’ll be good.

New Bungie IP please.

You mean the one NETEASE invested in? LOL.

(I still buy music, rather than rent it. Maybe I'm the only one left doing that - but I can't see that changing, because I don't want music I fall in love with to stop being available if I stop paying, or if the company offering it to me goes out of business. And no, before you try and make the equivalence, that's NOT how I think of gaming. For all the reasons given to you by a number of people yesterday.)

I totally still buy all of my music. :D

Eh, give or take a few exceptions now that I’m thinking about it as a whole.

I literally thought that was the point of Second Life :-p

Yeah, but even for just hanging out, the base activity has to be somewhat enjoyable.

Destiny is like spending the day on a boat at the lake. It’s enjoyable at a base level, even when it’s a huge pain in the ass and filled with inconveniences. Second Life is going to a baseball game—always awful with literally no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

As a reality check, though: they can't afford not to think about a commercial model or have a business plan. That has to be part of the equation.

Absolutely, and it seems like they've found a way to maintain a viable financial model for Destiny going forward. I would imagine that cutting Activision out of the revenue stream will help substantially with that.

I certainly hope so!

And my experience in life is that you get what you pay for. I pay, for instance, for the privilege of never watching TV commercials.

I'm with you 100%. I pre-ordered the Shadowkeep Collector's Edition from the Bungie Store yesterday. I'm on board. ;-) I have happily supported Bungie for many years, and I have rarely been disappointed with my 'investment.'

Me too! [secret handshake]

And my experience of "free-to-play" is that those games become tacky (if they're not born that way), and the need to insert adverts that generate revenue distract from the way I like to experience games.

I haven't played many free-to-play games (see previous point above), but those I have played (Apex Legends!) have seemed to walk the line appropriately. I have zero issue with the "new" Eververse setup. I've been saying since the store launched in D1 that I'd pay extra for the ability to get the things I want, rather than roll the dice. I think this is the right approach.

I admit that I'm speaking from limited experience, because I haven't played many free games for long. Perhaps this free-to-play hype will be good for Bungie, but personally I'm hoping it's more what someone here called free-to-try.

It's interesting to see all of the little changes that are happening now that Bungie owns the pipeline.

Indeed!

As a reality check, though: they can't afford not to think about a commercial model or have a business plan. That has to be part of the equation.

Absolutely, and it seems like they've found a way to maintain a viable financial model for Destiny going forward. I would imagine that cutting Activision out of the revenue stream will help substantially with that.

And my experience in life is that you get what you pay for. I pay, for instance, for the privilege of never watching TV commercials.

I'm with you 100%. I pre-ordered the Shadowkeep Collector's Edition from the Bungie Store yesterday. I'm on board. ;-) I have happily supported Bungie for many years, and I have rarely been disappointed with my 'investment.'

And my experience of "free-to-play" is that those games become tacky (if they're not born that way), and the need to insert adverts that generate revenue distract from the way I like to experience games.

I haven't played many free-to-play games (see previous point above), but those I have played (Apex Legends!) have seemed to walk the line appropriately. I have zero issue with the "new" Eververse setup. I've been saying since the store launched in D1 that I'd pay extra for the ability to get the things I want, rather than roll the dice. I think this is the right approach.

It's interesting to see all of the little changes that are happening now that Bungie owns the pipeline.

Then again, I believe that when capitalism is functioning properly money is a fair representation of the value you get when you spend it.

There are issues with this idea. The first is that everyone values money differently. I might have no problem paying $60 for a game, but for someone else that's a full day's wage after taxes. I'll happily pay $18 to go to a movie but to some it's madness. The idea of money representing value is false because money does not itself have a set value.

Of course. I wasn't talking about everyone at once, I was talking about the people who choose to spend money. And if the "functioning properly" part is true, they choose to spend primarily because they view it as a fair exchange of value. And the value of their money is always affected by how much money they have.

Likewise people value different things differently. So paying for a movie ticket to see a comedy might be a better 'value' than paying to see an action movie. The tickets could cost the same, but maybe the comedy is 85 minutes and the action movie is 120. Even though you get 'less' by seeing the comedy, you may value that more.

Yes. Judging a movie's value solely by length is dumb, but really, isn't this paragraph basically expressing the same idea as your first?

Remember when you'd spend $10 on an album? Now you spend $10 a month and get infinity albums. Do you think the person paying 10 dollars for spotify listens to one album per month?

This is complicated, because I don't think people listen to albums start to finish (purposely sitting down in a room) like they used to. I suspect that for most people, listening to music is a more fragmented and secondary activity than it used to be. It is for me.

Do you think this has changed the perceived 'value' of music?

No, the cost of access has changed because of technology. That has reduced the worth of the physical item (for some people).

Has the worth of the album actually changed?

Not necessarily, but I do think the number of artists who view and create albums as a cohesive artistic unit is lower, so fewer albums are created to be listened to based on, for example, there being two sides (as in a LP). Music is conceived now to be "stickier" on the song level. There are now computer models that measure this. A while back I remember reading an article about this, and at that time "Hey Ya!" was the "stickiest" yet tested.

Does music recording no longer make much money? >

Not as much, and not for as many (there is less support structure).

What do you make of this chart?

I worked in the industry for a big chunk of that time, man.

Do you think shifting to the service model is going to make people value games less, versus paying a large lump sum?

Depends on what individuals want. Most may no longer want what I want.

Do you think this is going to impact the ability to make cool games, when everything about making cool games these days is costing more and more?

Cool as defined by me, maybe, but again, I might be in the minority. The question about increased expense and increased expectation is something I've been worried about for a while. I don't have the answer.

Do you think games should actually cost more than they do now?

Maybe if the BS gets too deep and people want to pay not to have it.

I tend to buy deluxe versions if I trust the studio, so I guess I have to say yes. The perceived value has to be there, though. For a few studios, it is for me. So far Bungie has delivered for me (not that the contents of collector's editions and so on have been worth it in themselves), but even though I've spent extra money, the value of fun I've gotten in return has been a more than fair exchange.

Do you think the games industry is shooting itself and the foot and not knowing it?

Perhaps. I'm not trying to be a wet blanket on Urk's focus on creative vision--that's what's most important to me, too. I've always been particularly impressed when something is an artistic and a financial success. And whatever disruptions and constraints exist in these creative industries, somebody always seems able to surprise us with an unlikely hit that's creative and not like anything else, and the money men come running after. Here's hoping Bungie can be that special. I don't think anyone has an idea what the new hotness in gaming will be five years from now. I might not like it, but fortunately there is much more to life than video games.

But at the risk of opening myself up to an onslaught of ridicule from Korny, it’s no exaggeration to say that Destiny has been a significant part of my social life over the past 5 years. Surprise surprise, raising small kids doesn’t leave much time to go out with friends :) But Destiny is something I can jump into most nights and have some fun with friends.

I literally thought that was the point of Second Life :-p

I love where the road is going for Destiny, new content fresh constant stream of it with plenty of stuff to do but I do respect your opinion too! Sometimes riding the wave can get us burned out!

Yeah. I have no problem watching from the sidelines, and checking in on the things that are of interest to me (the campaign story, etc). So I'm glad some people are still playing and digging it.

You cannot compare something like Everquest, OSRS, or Classic World of Warcraft to Destiny as a "dedicated MMO experience"

I love where the road is going for Destiny, new content fresh constant stream of it with plenty of stuff to do but I do respect your opinion too! Sometimes riding the wave can get us burned out!