It's like the guy had lived in a cave and had never heard of marketing, and the whole concept was inherently unethical. I could not disagree more strongly.

I think most modern day marketing is damn near inherently unethical, and the fact that we're bombarded by it 24/7 doesn't help its case at all.

I think that misrepresents the circumstances. You are intentionally framing it as antagonistic when it is not. We’ve already had various activities that have come and gone with Destiny. Blades of Crota and Wolf Packs were the Vex Invasions of D1Y1. But those events were inherently resolved in the game and while someone else experiencing them later wouldn’t diminish my experience, continuing to see them show up well after I’ve dealt with Crota and Skolas would diminish the experience I had with them.

That's why you instance those things, to happen for people for whom it's appropriate, and not for those it isn't.

Plus of course, nobody paid extra for the privilege of experiencing those limited time events

You bought it because you valued it enough to ensure you had it. There was no assurance you would get it for free later (and I don’t recall any of the SoO ornaments dropping from Engrams just from the Bright Dust tracks) and instead of waiting you spent a premium to adopt early. If you did not value it enough to desire it for more than free you would not have bought it.

My point is that in this case, I had no idea that it was or would be available for free. I assumed it was a “silver only” item. I’m not upset about it. It was very possibly my own fault (I don’t remember if they ever said that these ornaments would be available for silver & through free engrams, but I could easily have just missed it).

My point is that I walked away feeling less inclined to spend more money in the future there, because I’m just not interested in following their somewhat convoluted system, and I’d rather not spend money on things that I’m likely to get for free a week or two later (given the amount of time I spend playing). Again, I’m not making accusations of malice. Just saying that for me, their store implementation is making me want to buy less, not more.

To me, this certainly doesn't mesh as well with the Bungie is evil theme. They're giving us a chance to get the same stuff for free! They're manipulating me to buy less from them! Bastards!

All of those experiences can still be had by anyone today but that doesnt diminish my experience of them in any way.

If your achievements and joys become less valuable to you when other people get to experience them, you're part of a much larger problem.

RPG with strong FPS and cooperative elements.

So you are saying that the live part of the game is taking away from those three elements? Cause I would argue that it enhances some of those elements.

Yes. I would argue that as designed it harms every single one.

I mean, I feel like having a live game with an ever changing world REALLY applies to RPG's in general. I mean, an RPG to me is has a deep story line where you as the character affects that. Having a live game where you are part of that every changing world (live) to me enhances that RPG element.

(Even there, you'll find griping, though - "I earned that gun before the nerf, when it was HARD!")

:-p

https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=153147

See, even I can say "I was there" but it feels shitty man. Overall, it's not a good attitude to foster I think since it's at the expense of good design.

You always say that something isn't great because it's at the expense of something better and yet you rarely actually say what the better thing is. What would be better? An entirely new game? One that isn't a live world?

I mean, it's possible you don't elaborate because it would be you just saying "I wish they hadn't made Destiny"

RPG with strong FPS and cooperative elements.

So you are saying that the live part of the game is taking away from those three elements? Cause I would argue that it enhances some of those elements.

Yes. I would argue that as designed it harms every single one.

(Even there, you'll find griping, though - "I earned that gun before the nerf, when it was HARD!")

:-p

https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=153147

See, even I can say "I was there" but it feels shitty man. Overall, it's not a good attitude to foster I think since it's at the expense of good design.

You always say that something isn't great because it's at the expense of something better and yet you rarely actually say what the better thing is. What would be better? An entirely new game? One that isn't a live world?

I mean, it's possible you don't elaborate because it would be you just saying "I wish they hadn't made Destiny"

RPG with strong FPS and cooperative elements.

So you are saying that the live part of the game is taking away from those three elements? Cause I would argue that it enhances some of those elements.

(Even there, you'll find griping, though - "I earned that gun before the nerf, when it was HARD!")

:-p

https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=153147

See, even I can say "I was there" but it feels shitty man. Overall, it's not a good attitude to foster I think since it's at the expense of good design.

You always say that something isn't great because it's at the expense of something better and yet you rarely actually say what the better thing is. What would be better? An entirely new game? One that isn't a live world?

I mean, it's possible you don't elaborate because it would be you just saying "I wish they hadn't made Destiny"

RPG with strong FPS and cooperative elements.

(Even there, you'll find griping, though - "I earned that gun before the nerf, when it was HARD!")

:-p

https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=153147

See, even I can say "I was there" but it feels shitty man. Overall, it's not a good attitude to foster I think since it's at the expense of good design.

You always say that something isn't great because it's at the expense of something better and yet you rarely actually say what the better thing is. What would be better? An entirely new game? One that isn't a live world?

I mean, it's possible you don't elaborate because it would be you just saying "I wish they hadn't made Destiny"

(Even there, you'll find griping, though - "I earned that gun before the nerf, when it was HARD!")

:-p

https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=153147

See, even I can say "I was there" but it feels shitty man. Overall, it's not a good attitude to foster I think since it's at the expense of good design.

But for digital goods? There's literally zero reason for it except to manipulate.

See, here's where you and I diverge.

Bungie has said (more than once, and in plenty of public places) that one of the reasons for scarcity is so that people can say "I was there when X". You have a certain emblem, you did a certain thing at a certain time. You were playing the game at a time when Eververse was selling that special ornament. You have a set of Iron Banner armor that new players can't get any more because you were playing this game when it was new. Whatever.

YES - that's manipulation; they're playing to your sense of vanity, really. "Don't you want to be special? Don't you want people to know you're one of the OG Guardians? Buy this ornament, and everyone will know it!"

But holy shit, the game you're suggesting they build means that one of the things people like most - standing out from the crowd - is something you don't respect, something you don't care about, whatever. BUT OTHER PEOPLE DO. And Bungie is catering to those people.

There are plenty of things that are difficulty-gated, that you could earn early on but that you can STILL earn - Cruel just got his Not Forgotten, for example. (Even there, you'll find griping, though - "I earned that gun before the nerf, when it was HARD!") But you're suggesting that things that you can buy - things that don't take actual skill to earn - should be available always, because to time-limit the purchase is to manipulate the market... and I simply can't buy into that.

When a store has too many options, I often find myself walking away without buying at all; I've gone into a supermarket to find cereal without a clear idea of what I want, gotten overwhelmed by the variety, and walked out without cereal. I'm sure that concept is one of the things Bungie considered when creating their system.

Especially a store that is operated using a videogame controller; the idea of choosing between 500 ornaments with my controller gives me hives.

Those are a couple of things that might affect the permanent availability of digital items that really aren't aimed at screwing the user. I'm sure there are more.

Not saying for a second that the idea of getting people to buy BECAUSE it might not be available later isn't ALSO part of the equation... just saying it might not be the ONLY thing.